Today, we drove from Idaho to Salt Lake City, Utah. Our first stop was the Clark Planetarium. The above picture shows Roland and the kids on the surface of Mars. After much discussion it was determined that our next stop would be Temple Square. The grounds of the Mormon Temple were beautifully landscaped with tulips in full bloom. The place was swarming with "sisters" and "brothers" and "elders". We were trying to mind our own business, but then 2 sisters approached us and "forced" Roland into a theological discussion. : ) The sisters were happy to leave the conversation agreeing that we all just loved Jesus, but Roland couldn't concede that we loved the same Jesus...
4 comments:
I'm glad you enjoyed your visit. Come back soon.
I'm always mystified by that thought that Mormons believe in a different Jesus. How do you mean?
Is it because we don't think He's the same entity as the Holy Ghost and Heavenly Father?
Pardon my splitting hairs, but the way that claim is phrased gives people the impression that we believe 'our' Jesus wasn't born in Bethlehem, didn't heal the sick, wasn't crucified for our sins, etc. We do believe in that Jesus. The one described in the New Testament by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
Hi Thaddeus,
Thanks for your questions. Maybe I can shed some light on this issue (Roland or Lanae, I hope you don't mind me chimming in on this). It is true that we share some common understandings about some of the basic facts of Christ's life, but there are deep differences between our understandings about his nature. These are core beliefs about "who" he is?
Here are a couple examples:
Pre-existence of Jesus
Mormon View
Mormonism teaches that Jesus pre-existed in pre-earth spiritual realm in a familial relationship with his heavenly father and mother. He was conceived through the literal procreation between his parents, he was one of their spirit sons just like all human beings. He is seen as the “First Born”, literally and chronologically, and often referred to as their “elder brother”. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct beings, united only in purpose and love, not essence.
Christian View
Jesus pre-existed as the eternal word (Jn 1:1). He is God the Son from all eternity, the second person of the Trinity. He shares with both the Father and the Holy Spirit the same essence. He never came into existence and has always been. Further, Christians don’t believe that there is a heavenly mother procreating with heavenly Father to produce spirit babies. In contrast, Jesus Christ created all things as John 1:1-3 states, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.”
The Incarnation and birth of Christ
Mormon View
Mormonism teaches that Jesus was not conceived by the Holy Spirit in Mary’s womb but by a special physical visitation by the Father. The Father, who has a body of flesh and bones, had a literal physical sexual encounter with Mary. Interestingly, in direct contradiction, Alma 7:10 says that Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit, not the Father.
Christian View
Historic orthodox Christianity has always taught the biblical view that Mary conceived miraculously by the Holy Spirit (Matt 1:18; Luke 1:35). Christians view this truth as indivisible from the greatest miracle of them all – the incarnation of God in Christ Jesus. Father God doesn’t have a body of flesh and bones which would be required for Him to have been sexual relations with his spirit-child conceived in the pre-existence.
These are some of the reasons that Christians reject the Jesus of Mormonism as counterfeit. These views are not biblical and if one continues to believe in this Jesus they are in spiritual danger. Listen, only the real Jesus of the bible can provide the atonement necessary to cleanse us from sin. He calls us to repent of our sin, trust him and make him our Lord (Rom. 10:9-11) He is the only way to salvation. Our works can never get us there (Eph 2:8,9); only through the person and work of Christ may we stand before God on judgment day and be declared righteous. Our own righteousness is as filthy rags to God, we have nothing to offer that can atone for sinning against a holy and perfect God. We are all guilty of breaking his commandments, will stand guilty and end up in hell. But God doesn’t want that – he loves us so much. The Bible says, “While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” If you repent and trust in Christ, He will forgive your sin and grant you eternal life.
So, Thaddeus, it is true that the Jesus of Christianity and the Jesus of Mormonism are different and it is vitally important that we believe in the one the bible, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, has revealed to us. Otherwise, we will still be in our sins on Judgment day.
God bless,
Michael H.
Thaddeus,
I'm finally back home from my vacation and thought I would respond to your comment about believing in the sme Jesus. I actually had this conversation with someone at the temple courtyard there in Utah.
Let me split this hair for you so that you might see a clear distinction between the Jesus of Mormonism and the Jesus described in the Bible.
The Bible clearly describes that there is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4-6), and Jesus Christ is His eternal Word made flesh (John 1:1; 1:14). It was the role of the second person of the Trinity, upon receiving Him by the sons of men, to empower them to be called children of God (John 1:12) This came about as a result of God's unmerited favor and love towards sinners. Jesus Christ offered a once for all eternal sacrifice for all sins, and His salvation comes not by works of the law or any human works (Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8-9), but merely by grace through faith. The New Testament reveals that Jesus Christ (the Savior)existed eternally as God; lied a holy, harmless, and sinless life, separate from sinners; and "knew no sin."
The Mormon "savior" is not the second person of the Christian Trinity, because Mormonism rejects the Christian doctrine of the Trinity. In Mormon theology, Jesus Christ as a pre-existent spirit was not only the spirit brother of the devil (as alluded to in the Pearl of Great price, Moses 4:1-4 and later reaffirmed by Brigham Young in the Journal of Discourses, 13:282), but celebrated his own marriage to "Mary and Martha, and the other Mary," at Cana of Galilee, "whereby he could see his seed, before he was crucified" (Apostle Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, 4:259; 2:82). This is clearly a difference between the MOrmon "Christ" and the Christ of the Bible. In addition Young states that the sacrifice made upon the cross by Jesus Christ in the form of His own blood was ineffective for the cleansing of some sins. You can read Young's position on the limiting cleansing power of Christ's blood in Journal of Discourses, 3:247; 4:219-220. To summarize that discourse, Young simply states that Christ's blood could not cleanse. A man's own blood atonement could. This teaches that in some intances human sacrifice, which Young states took place and which he sanctioned, were effective where Christ's blood was not.
1 John 1:7 states, "The blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all unrighteousness."
Hebrews 9:14 describes that we have redemption and tha tHis blood is the means of the cleansing of the conscience.
According to Romans 5:9 we are delcared righteous by the blood of Christ.
Thaddeus, I encourage you to put away the Book of Mormons. It is only bring confusion to your mind. Put it away and begin reading about the true Jesus Christ of the Bible. I would suggest you start in the gospel according to John. Just read it and ask yourself two question. What does this tell me about Jesus Christ? And secondly, what does this tell me about how I can be cleansed from my sin so that I can stand before a holy God who hates sin.
Roland
Thank you for responding. The differences you two point out are indicative not of contradictions, but of additional information about Christ that historical Christianity lacks.
The Bible is a rich trove of inspired teachings. I read it daily. But, there is more to know than what is contained in the Bible.
God appeared to Joseph Smith because there had been an apostasy. In every historical apostasy there has been a loss of information. Likewise, there has been a restoration of lost information through a designated prophet (think: Ezra).
In any case, you misrepresent your point when you say it is a different Jesus. That is a slogan. Slogans are good for winning people to your cause through pathos, but not good for education. Unless you detail it with your arguments above, it leaves people with the false impression that the Mormon Jesus has nothing to do with the Bible. This is nothing but propaganda.
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